Author Topic: Once upon a time...  (Read 2607 times)

murlough23

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Re: Once upon a time...
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2011, 11:52:25 am »
For what it's worth it, I changed my mind and now think Pusher elite and other underpowered (cept mono) can still have a buff, instead of the others being nerved.

One thing that got suggested in the other thread was making Mono its own tier, so that its scores are never shown mixed in with Puzzler scores. There'd still be Casual, Pro, and Elite difficulties for Mono as they are now, but your Ninja Mono score wouldn't get dethroned by Eraser Elite or anything like that - only by other Ninja Mono players. This would be good for those who play both Mono and Puzzle modes, as they could do Puzzle runs without wiping out their own Mono scores. (Or vice versa. I have actually had the experience of finding out just how lame a few of my Eraser Elite scores were by trumping them with Ninja Mono.)

blue_h3x

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Re: Once upon a time...
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2011, 12:09:25 pm »
Mono being in it's own tier would work imo, as they play is quite different to puzzle characters. Though to action this, a UI change will be needed, both on the menu screen and on the scores screen, otherwise much confusion will be caused.
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murlough23

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Re: Once upon a time...
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2011, 12:14:16 pm »
Mono being in it's own tier would work imo, as they play is quite different to puzzle characters. Though to action this, a UI change will be needed, both on the menu screen and on the scores screen, otherwise much confusion will be caused.

Yeah. We discussed that as part of a larger change to how the scoreboards are managed. We'd definitely need more - and clearer - navigation options to get between the different lists.

It's part of my much larger wish list for better human interaction with the scoreboards, particularly when we see scores that are obvious cheats, or even legitimate ones that are simply out of place (misspelled title, wrong version of the song, etc.) I know it'd be a lot for the dev team to keep tabs on, which is why I think they should give us a system that allows at least some set of trusted users to help keep things neat and tidy - serving a similar function to moderators on message boards.

dschallert

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Re: Once upon a time...
« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2011, 06:25:31 pm »
Mono being in it's own tier would work imo, as they play is quite different to puzzle characters. Though to action this, a UI change will be needed, both on the menu screen and on the scores screen, otherwise much confusion will be caused.

Yeah. We discussed that as part of a larger change to how the scoreboards are managed. We'd definitely need more - and clearer - navigation options to get between the different lists.

It's part of my much larger wish list for better human interaction with the scoreboards, particularly when we see scores that are obvious cheats, or even legitimate ones that are simply out of place (misspelled title, wrong version of the song, etc.) I know it'd be a lot for the dev team to keep tabs on, which is why I think they should give us a system that allows at least some set of trusted users to help keep things neat and tidy - serving a similar function to moderators on message boards.

Hey Murlough,

These are EXCELLENT (or perhaps I should say, OXCOLLONT) ideas, and in fact, something similar to what you describe regarding scoreboard "moderators" is already in place, though not as extensively as how you describe. Maybe we should talk to Dylan about this again.

But I really agree on the improvements to the scoreboard UI that you and others mentioned. I think that if it were done carefully, perhaps with first-time tooltips, the multiple-scoreboard ideas would not be at all overly complicated or difficult to understand.

-DS
Walk in to the club I'm like "what up, I got big queue"

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murlough23

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Re: Once upon a time...
« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2011, 06:48:58 pm »
These are EXCELLENT (or perhaps I should say, OXCOLLONT) ideas, and in fact, something similar to what you describe regarding scoreboard "moderators" is already in place, though not as extensively as how you describe. Maybe we should talk to Dylan about this again.

To what extent does this functionality already exist? I guess I don't really know how it's all managed behind the scenes.

But I really agree on the improvements to the scoreboard UI that you and others mentioned. I think that if it were done carefully, perhaps with first-time tooltips, the multiple-scoreboard ideas would not be at all overly complicated or difficult to understand.

I'm a web designer myself, so I'm constantly struggling to find that balance between the dream wish list of every option the user could ever want, and a self-explanatory UI that doesn't overwhelm the user with a control panel that resembles an airline cockpit. It's due to this that I'm constantly coming up with these "nice-to-haves" that I think would make the game more fun/less frustrating for those who care about the details, while keeping those details mostly out of the way of folks who are less particular about it and don't want the status quo to change.

ViRUS

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Re: Once upon a time...
« Reply #35 on: May 24, 2011, 06:59:38 pm »
These are EXCELLENT (or perhaps I should say, OXCOLLONT) ideas, and in fact, something similar to what you describe regarding scoreboard "moderators" is already in place, though not as extensively as how you describe. Maybe we should talk to Dylan about this again.
To what extent does this functionality already exist?

To a non-existent extent.


Passerby

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Re: Once upon a time...
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2011, 04:23:51 am »
well the scorebards site could use a recode too.

to bring in new features and better UI but also cause it isn't very efficient right now

blue_h3x

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Re: Once upon a time...
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2011, 04:49:57 am »
The site uses AJAX, but implemented all wrong imo. The sever formats the HTML and sends it to the client. It should be done the other way, sending a raw string to the client and have the client process and format the data. Would offload quite a bit from the server and make the site respond faster due to reduced packets and sever overhead.
Similar to how the tournament site was built ;)
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dschallert

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Re: Once upon a time...
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2011, 07:30:53 am »
These are EXCELLENT (or perhaps I should say, OXCOLLONT) ideas, and in fact, something similar to what you describe regarding scoreboard "moderators" is already in place, though not as extensively as how you describe. Maybe we should talk to Dylan about this again.

To what extent does this functionality already exist? I guess I don't really know how it's all managed behind the scenes.

It is just that right now -- behind the scenes. I would have to guess that there is some concern over controversies arising if players (even long time community members) were given any power to remove scores.
Walk in to the club I'm like "what up, I got big queue"

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murlough23

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Re: Once upon a time...
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2011, 11:16:01 am »
It is just that right now -- behind the scenes. I would have to guess that there is some concern over controversies arising if players (even long time community members) were given any power to remove scores.

I was imagining some sort of system of checks & balances so that a single moderator having a bad day couldn't just wipe out someone's scores due to a personal vendetta or whatever. Though hopefully we'd choose people known to be saner than that (the same way forum moderators are chosen and trusted not to just delete accounts willy-nilly whenever they disagree with people).

Failing that, maybe some sort of sub-section of the message boards just for moderators to discuss before taking action. "Hey, here's a score that looks like a cheat. Anyone object to my deleting it?" Or "Hey, here's a score that should be relocated because there are two known versions of this song. Anyone know the artist well enough to verify this?" Something like that. There'd need to be enough mods for a system like that to really get some traction, though.

It'd also probably be a good idea for the system to remember deleted scores, just in case a mod goes rogue, and someone else needs to ban that person and undo their damage. But again, I'm optimistic enough to hope we could avoid that scenario by picking the right people to begin with.

blue_h3x

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Re: Once upon a time...
« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2011, 12:20:45 pm »
Or require two mods to flag the score for deletion, but the system hides who submitted the deletion request and if a score has had one.
Such that each mod check periodically the list of scores reported, once two mods have ticked 'yes this is fake' the score goes.

The sub-forum for listing bad scores submitted from the same user etc might be a good idea.
Or maybe have a hidden counter on each profile for the number of revoked scores might help as well.
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murlough23

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Re: Once upon a time...
« Reply #41 on: May 25, 2011, 01:09:57 pm »
Or require two mods to flag the score for deletion, but the system hides who submitted the deletion request and if a score has had one.

I was thinking only allow mods to see that information. Someone should know who did it even if the player doesn't get to know.

But yeah, I like your two-man job idea.