Author Topic: Ongaku  (Read 1384 times)

bebophop231

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
    • Email
Ongaku
« on: February 22, 2011, 07:37:44 am »
Hi Everyone,

I work at an Indie studio called SmashMouth Games and we recently released a rhythm action game called Ongaku back in October. The game includes a music analyser which we dubbed 'Tune-A-Matic', which uses user images for the gameplay backgrounds. I don't wanna sound like I'm advertising or anything, but we could use some feedback on our music analyser gameplay as we're prospecting a future update for the game.

You can try out the game with the music analyser capabilities for free by downloading our demo here: http://www.ongakugame.com/demotry.html.

I had a read of the other games you rated and we would really appreciate it if you tried it out and see how ours fairs to the competition. If you want to see some gameplay footage then we have videos posted on YouTube here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YXZ1sO8emM.

We really want to hear your comments and tell us if there's anything you like/dislike.

Thanks for reading :)

blue_h3x

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4732
    • View Profile
    • AS Tournament
Ongaku
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2011, 08:55:13 am »
I had a play.

So I just tap wasd/arrows to match the incoming thing? I found it didn't enthuse me to play. I didn't see how it was connected to the music either.
I don't find guitar that fun to play, so might just be me. Interesting concept though.

Mods: please split this into a new thread.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 01:57:32 pm by blue_h3x »
Austria is just like Yorkshire, but they have bigger hills.... oh and they have real snow too

ViRUS

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3218
    • MSN Messenger - newvirus@live.com.ar
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Ongaku
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2011, 05:39:39 pm »
I get this when I try to run the demo:

http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/2909/2222011223418.jpg

I related that with my screen resolution, since I've had some games in the past that don't support 1360x768, so I looked into the game's files to see if I could find anything about a graphics setting or something, and so I did with the file CoreGlobal.ini, I opened it up and saw this:

Code: [Select]
fScreenWidth                  1920.000000    // Screen Width
fScreenHeight                 1080.000000    // Screen Height
fViewportWidth                1920.000000    // Viewport Width onto playfield
fViewportHeight               1080.000000    // Viewport Height onto playfield
fPlayfieldWidth               1920.000000    // Playfield Width
fPlayfieldHeight              1080.000000    // Playfield Height
bWindowed                     true            // Windowed Mode
fFOV                          1.570796       // Field Of View (Radians)
fViewportXOffset              0.100000       // Viewport XOffset
fViewportYOffset              0.000000       // Viewport YOffset
fKeyRepeatRate                0.062500       // Key repeat rate in (seconds)
fKeyRepeatTime                0.200000       // Key repeat delay until repeat starts

"are these guys serious? 1920x1080 as the default resolution?" was my first thought, but I changed those values the error still happened, in fact, it's like the game isn't even loading the file, since changing "bWindowed" from true to false did nothing.

So I went to see the readme and found this:

"Video Problems

Ongaku runs in a Full Screen window at a fixed resolution, however on some video cards this can cause certain
visual artifacts.
In order to prevent this functionality from spoiling your experience try adjusting your monitor's screen resolution."

Oh really? So my monitor/GPU has to support the resolution your game uses and not the other way round?

Nice coding there, guys...

EDIT: Changing my Windows' resolution did nothing. I still have the demo installed and I'm willing to help you troubleshoot the problem if you guys are up to it.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 05:43:23 pm by ViRUS »


Mincus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2433
    • View Profile
Re: Ongaku
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2011, 10:43:24 pm »
The good:
 - The base concept is good, it works better than it looks like it will from the videos.
 - Nice selection of controls (although I'd add that you should allow 'custom' as well).
 - Being able to add pictures/videos is an interesting concept (although not in the demo, so I've not tested).

The bad:
 - The story is unnecessary and too cutesy. It may lose you customers in the traditional music/rhythm game demographic (Audiosurf, Beat Hazard, Rhythm Zone, etc. There are no stories or even introductions in these for a reason).
 - The story text is very cramped, it didn't make me want to read it. About the limit for this sort of thing is shown by Braid, which has some large blocks of text. Gamers don't want to read lots of text, they want to play the game.
 - The game is very clearly driven by the art team who've run unchecked and don't seem to know when to restrain themselves. Perhaps this was a purposeful art design decision, but it's one that I really dislike. When characters are over-animated (jiggling about all over) it really puts me off, but I accept that might be personal opinion.
 - The key press detection is too harsh and needs more clarification as to when exactly you should hit the key. As a Rhythm Zone veteran I shouldn't be left thinking the beat detection is broken after missing a load of notes on the first level (it's not broken, it's just awkward and left me 'scooping' everything).
 - It crashed when I tried to start the second level in the demo (the only thing I maybe did unusual was use a gamepad as the control scheme).
 - Menu controls are all mouse driven but gameplay has the option to be either keyboard or gamepad only. Being able to select from these control mechanisms would help.
 - Stopping the music entirely on a mistake is a bad idea. Perhaps temporarily reducing the volume and playing the 'bad' sound effect instead would work better. Guitar Hero gets away with this because it still has a background track to keep beat to. This isn't so much an issue on Easy, but I can see it would be on harder difficulties with more notes.

Sorry if that sounds overly critical, that's not my intention, the game is solid, it just needs some work to be aon the same 'level' as some of the more polished music games around. :)
I'll play some more later and add to these and I'll try to expand on any if you want. This is all working from the demo.

I'd like to see what else gamesTM said about it. I note you have a quote from them on the website as "A mechanically sound rhythm action title..." which is what I would call it.

Might want to check on your forum as well, it's got a lot of spam posts.

Hope I've been fair there. Call me out if you think otherwise.

EDIT: The demo seems to crash whenever I move to a new level in story mode. Restarting it allows me to then play it, but it's annoying. :-\

EDIT2: I can't play the demo on medium at all. It always crashes at some point in the first story mode level.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 11:17:48 pm by Mincus »

blue_h3x

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4732
    • View Profile
    • AS Tournament
Re: Ongaku
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2011, 03:29:11 am »
I agree with Mincus, the overly animated intro made me think I was watching some cheep kids tv show for 3 year olds.

I'd like to just play my music and not have to deal with a story, which is kinda redundant as it's not the reason why I'd play the game (unlike Halflife, Mess Effect etc).

Austria is just like Yorkshire, but they have bigger hills.... oh and they have real snow too

Mincus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2433
    • View Profile
Re: Ongaku
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2011, 04:03:45 am »
So, after a reboot and some swearing, I managed to play through the 3 demo story levels on Medium and played several tracks from my own collection.

I got used to the point where you have to hit the buttons, it's slightly later than I would have marked and as such I tend to finish levels with a lot of 'early' notes.
I did enjoy playing through, the difficulty curve between the levels is about right and assuming it continues for the rest of the game feels fair.

When loading my own music I hit some problems:
 - I think although I've not tested it thoroughly, that the game has problems loading filenames with multiple periods in, like 01. song name.mp3. That threw up an error on the first track I tried to play, which wasn't the best start.
 - Most of my collection is in either FLAC or OGG format. Ongaku only supports WAVs and MP3s which limited the music I could use in the game. Both FLAC and OGG are free codecs that are easy to add support for with no penalty or cost and a lot of the people who play these sorts of games appreciate support for these formats.
 - A lot of songs seem to just create a "tap every beat" track. This isn't particularly fun and the first 2 tracks I got to work were even worse as there was no vertical movement either. I'm not really sure there's an easy answer to this one though.

Having said that, I did find a handful of songs I enjoyed playing. The music detection isn't on par with Audiosurf or Rhythm Zone, but it's much more clear what is happening than in Turba.

Overall I was enjoying it and would have played longer, then the time limit on the demo ran out. I'm not really sure whether I'll buy it as the crashing problems really put me off (I think it happens if I click a level in story mode before starting to play, but it's not predictable enough for me to be sure).

bebophop231

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Ongaku
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2011, 08:52:50 am »
@ ViRUS

Sorry your having problems and I've just now checked out the image you sent and it looks like a Directx problem. During the installation it should have asked to install Directx9 as there are some drivers that are needed to run the game. The Directx installer is a web installer, so you need to be connected to the net to make sure it gets the latest drivers.

Alternatively you can download them manually from Microsoft at http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=3b170b25-abab-4bc3-ae91-50ceb6d8fa8d. It's a bit more of a faff but it amounts to the same result.

Hope this helps :)


bebophop231

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Ongaku
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2011, 10:39:26 am »
@Mincus & blue_h3x

Thanks for the thorough feedback. It's better for us if feedback is detailed as possible as opposed to comments when people say it's s**t and don't let us know why :P.

The crash you seem to be having on the Medium difficulty levels sounds strange and we'll look into it. Could you send over some specs of the machine you're running the game on and see if this is something we can track down.

I'll make a note of all the feedback (plus any more from anyone else who tries out Ongaku), and discuss it with the team to see if there's anything we could adjust for a future update ;).

If you want to know more about the gamesTM magazine review it's also featured on their website called nowgamer.com http://www.nowgamer.com/reviews/pc-mmo/9470/ongaku. The review here is the same as the one in the magazine.

Thanks again for the feedback :).

P.S
Just so you know we're also working on a new title for iPhone which will include a music analyser. It'll be different from the Ongaku game version, but when its finished and released we would love to possibly pass out some promo codes and see what you (the people) think of it. When we get some screenshots and videos I could drop some links here if that's o.k. with the Mods.


ViRUS

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3218
    • MSN Messenger - newvirus@live.com.ar
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Ongaku
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2011, 11:08:02 am »
I'm confident my DirectX is fully updated, it's the first thing I do when I install Windows, and even your installer said that an update wasn't necessary, but I'll run the web installer once again just for kicks when I get home. For the time being, and I don't want to be dense, I stand by my resolution thing, I've seen the exact same problem on many games and it went away after changing the resolution.

I'll also test the game on my mum's PC, which uses 1024x768 which is a far less strange resolution to see if the problem also pops up on that machine.

Good to know you came back to troubleshoot though, that's always a step in the correct direction :)


blue_h3x

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4732
    • View Profile
    • AS Tournament
Re: Ongaku
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2011, 12:44:54 pm »
I gave it a second go, and found how to add my own music. Though, it's all in flac or some old stuff in wma. FLAC support would be nice.

I can't get the hang of keys to move up and down, it feels like it's going through treacle, maybe set jumps would solve this. So a tap of the up key moves the thing 1 unit up etc. Though I'd like mouse support for moving it up and down; being a PC gamer I use mouse for a lot of games and I'm used to it.

The arrows on the note bubbles are hard to see for green and yellow on single length bubbles and I kept dropping notes, although that might be solved by time, greater contrast might not go amiss. Though on a second note, for a harder game type, you could remove the arrows and the player has to move based on the colour.

I'm not so sure on beat detection, I chose a track with a definite beat to it, and the bubbles appears to be random, or more based on the vocals not the beat. Not sure how your algo works so can't help any more there.

A complete noob mode would help (for me anyway, seen as I don't play these games typically) as I can't finish a track, where it doesn't end with so many missed beats and lets you continue. The most annoying thing is a game telling you 'you suck' which causes frustration and then people quit. Although you need the hard modes for veterans, don't alienate the beginners.

Regarding screen resolutions: there's more in use than you expect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_resolution#Current_standards
The Steam hardware survey is useful as well, making sure you support the ones that are being used currently.



P.S
Just so you know we're also working on a new title for iPhone which will include a music analyser. It'll be different from the Ongaku game version, but when its finished and released we would love to possibly pass out some promo codes and see what you (the people) think of it. When we get some screenshots and videos I could drop some links here if that's o.k. with the Mods.



Android would be nicer ;)


Austria is just like Yorkshire, but they have bigger hills.... oh and they have real snow too

chimaeraUndying

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 821
  • MADNESS
    • View Profile
Re: Ongaku
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2011, 02:40:21 pm »
Android would be nicer ;)

And probably better for you economically.

Mincus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2433
    • View Profile
Re: Ongaku
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2011, 09:56:56 pm »
I can't get the hang of keys to move up and down, it feels like it's going through treacle, maybe set jumps would solve this. So a tap of the up key moves the thing 1 unit up etc. Though I'd like mouse support for moving it up and down; being a PC gamer I use mouse for a lot of games and I'm used to it.
There's a few control options in the options menu. Can't remember exactly where since the time limit won't let me run the game to check.
I found it worked best on a 360 pad. The directions are the same colour as the buttons. ;)


A complete noob mode would help (for me anyway, seen as I don't play these games typically) as I can't finish a track, where it doesn't end with so many missed beats and lets you continue. The most annoying thing is a game telling you 'you suck' which causes frustration and then people quit. Although you need the hard modes for veterans, don't alienate the beginners.
There's a 'beginner' level. I think it lets you press any direction for the notes, but I'm going off a review for that, not tried it myself.


Android would be nicer ;)

And probably better for you economically.
Depends on whether they already have a mac + iPhone/iPad/etc. If they do then the $100 to get on the app store are negligible and the Apple store is shown to have developers make more money than the Android marketplace.

Shame, because in practically every other way the Android marketplace is superior. It's where I intend to release the game I'm currently working on.

ViRUS

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3218
    • MSN Messenger - newvirus@live.com.ar
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Ongaku
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2011, 09:14:04 am »
So, updating DirectX did nothing at all.

The game did run on my mum's PC though, which has a 1024x768 CRT screen and it's using its integrated Intel chipset as a GPU.
Ongaku stuttered like mad since it was forcing the maximum possible resolution for that screen (1280x1024) so the GPU just couldn't keep up.
One thing I noticed during my short play-through is how annoying the laughing sound is, and how much I hated having to hear it every time I failed a note.

And I also felt like a 5-year-old the whole time I was playing the game.

I also tried the game on my laptop, which, I accept, barely meets the minimum requirements and it got stuck on the Loading screen every time I launched it, and then Windows threw up the "Ongaku.exe has stopped working" error message.

So, so far, Ongaku worked on this PC:

Core 2 Duo E4500 @ 2.20GHz
2GB RAM
Intel integrated GPU
Windows 7 SP1 32bit

and it didn't on these PCs:

Desktop PC:
Phenom II X4 965 @ 3.42GHz
4GB RAM
AMD HD5750
Windows 7 SP1 64bit

Laptop:
Pentium Dual-Core T4200 @ 2GHz
2GB RAM
Intel integrated GPU
Windows 7 SP1 32bit

Since my laptop barely meets the minimum requirements, I don't think troubleshooting it it's worth the effort...
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 09:16:04 am by ViRUS »


Mincus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2433
    • View Profile
Re: Ongaku
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2011, 09:27:17 am »
The crash you seem to be having on the Medium difficulty levels sounds strange and we'll look into it. Could you send over some specs of the machine you're running the game on and see if this is something we can track down.
Core 2 Quad Q6600 (stock 2.4GHz), Geforce 8800 GT 512MB, 4GB RAM, Win7 x64.

I do have an unusual configuration since I use the machine for development myself, as such I've the Direct X SDK and a few other dev bits on. I've got fewer on my laptop which is otherwise a very similar spec, so I'll see if I can reproduce it there (Core 2 Duo 2.2GHz, Geforce 8600M GT 256MB, 4GB, Win7 x64).

If you want to know more about the gamesTM magazine review it's also featured on their website called nowgamer.com http://www.nowgamer.com/reviews/pc-mmo/9470/ongaku. The review here is the same as the one in the magazine.
Thanks, I'd actually already found that particular review. It mentions 'community support' and one thing that seems to be missing compared to other games in the genre are scoreboards. I think these are vital for bringing the community together in such games.

blue_h3x

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4732
    • View Profile
    • AS Tournament
Re: Ongaku
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2011, 09:59:06 am »
So, updating DirectX did nothing at all.

The game did run on my mum's PC though, which has a 1024x768 CRT screen and it's using its integrated Intel chipset as a GPU.
Ongaku stuttered like mad since it was forcing the maximum possible resolution for that screen (1280x1024) so the GPU just couldn't keep up.

Usually games start on the lowest res and let you change up, not the other way round ;)


One thing I noticed during my short play-through is how annoying the laughing sound is, and how much I hated having to hear it every time I failed a note.
And I also felt like a 5-year-old the whole time I was playing the game.

Same, and that's why I stopped playing.

Just on a note to bebophop231:
I didn't like the way Beat Hazard kept playing with the audio levels, and thus didn't get it. Though since they 'fixed' that by letting you disable the 'feature' that alters the volume, I've bought the game and play it. It annoys me when there isn't a constant volume, and I know it annoys others, and if it's annoying people won't play it. Not trying to be harsh, but I hope this helps more than it's sh*t kkthanxbai
Austria is just like Yorkshire, but they have bigger hills.... oh and they have real snow too