Author Topic: Consistent behavior for matches/powerups  (Read 1873 times)

murlough23

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Consistent behavior for matches/powerups
« on: February 20, 2010, 12:46:46 pm »
A cardinal rule of Audiosurf, and perhaps the thing that makes it manageable to play on faster/denser songs, is the notion that a full column with a match in it will immediately register and remove the match when overfilled, allowing you to pick up long strings of the same color without worrying about whether they will overfill the column (so long as there are at least 3 available slots in that column or a match already identified farther down in the column, of course).

But lately, I've been seeing some inconsistency as far as the Paint powerup is concerned. I can't tell you how many times I've fired off a Paint after carefully filling each column, aiming for the Match 21 bonus, only to hit a block immediately after painting the entire grid and having that column get treated as an overfill and removed. The remaining columns still get painted, flash, and disappear, crediting me for the match of 14 blocks. So clearly I used the Paint before hitting the extra block. (It was in my possession using either Vegas or Pointman - if I'd hit the block before using the powerup, the powerup would have been forfeited and no blocks would have been painted).

My guess is that it takes a few split seconds for the painted blocks to finish changing color, and during that  brief window, they're still treated as their previous colors, even though they all look the same to the user. Since a match of blocks that were acquired from the track rather than using paint starts flashing immediately, this seems inconsistent to me.

Also inconsistent is the behavior of lightning bolts. Two problems I'm having here:

1) If you fire off a Sort powerup while blocks from a lightning bolt are being "flung" into the grid, they all disappear and aren't taken into account during the sort. (Though this also happens with a brick you've hit that hasn't "settled" yet.)

2) If you fire off a regular-colored lightning bolt while one or more columns are full, no extra blocks appear in that column. If you fire one off while all columns are full, no new blocks appear at all. But if you fire off a wild card lightning bolt (which produces three glowing blocks in the same column) while positioned in a full column, you overfill and get penalized. Yet if you fire off the wild card lightning bolt and one or two spaces are available in that column, the wild card bricks that show match with whatever's below and disappear, while the remaining bricks settle down from above.

That last one only happens in Vegas mode, of course, but is a particular point of contention for me, as I seem to have the worst luck when waiting for the precise moment to paint an entire grid, only to have that nefarious glowing lightning bolt show up in my queue at the exact moment I right-click intending to release the paint - so I overfill and lose the paint powerup. Aargh. Maybe that's just the luck of the draw for a character whose performance does depend to some degree on luck, but it still takes skill to fill the entire grid with no matches when and have Paint in your possession (or Sort and at least 3 of each color plus no whites), so it's annoying to get robbed of that so quickly that you had no way of anticipating it.

Aquinox

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Re: Consistent behavior for matches/powerups
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2010, 01:49:36 pm »
I also have the problem of paint > overfill, on any character. it must be a game bug and I would like to see it fixed.

murlough23

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Re: Consistent behavior for matches/powerups
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2010, 03:30:09 pm »
I also have the problem of paint > overfill, on any character. it must be a game bug and I would like to see it fixed.

So this also happens for characters that cannot pickup/generate powerups, but instead must just collide with them on the track? Interesting. I've never had that problem.

Aquinox

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Re: Consistent behavior for matches/powerups
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2010, 03:48:25 pm »
Jup, I mainly use eraser pro, and when the situation exists that a block is directly behind a paint, and that row is full >overfill >:(

murlough23

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Re: Consistent behavior for matches/powerups
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2010, 03:54:06 pm »
Jup, I mainly use eraser pro, and when the situation exists that a block is directly behind a paint, and that row is full >overfill >:(

That confirms that the issue is timing (i.e. you're still vulnerable to an overfill during the transition from several colors to a single color), and not whether the paint was on the track or in your possession. Hopefully this will help with the troubleshooting.

The game just needs to be consistent about its delays, I guess. Either the new paint color should apply instantly (regardless of what's going on visually), or we should just expect that every power up takes a split second to take effect. What's weird is that paint will apply to bricks still being laid down (for example, by a lightning bolt or when you've just hit a brick on the track), but Sort happens instantaneously just wipes those "bricks in transition" off the grid completely.

The lag with the multiplier also frustrates me, but I figure that's an intentional part of the game mechanics - it takes a few seconds to "spin", slot machine style, and then land on a number, and the bonus only applies to the next thing scored after that. Sure makes it tricky when Vegas has paint on top of a multiplier in its queue, though. (I can sometimes exploit the lag by firing one immediately after the other and picking up bricks from the track to delay the clearing of the painted bricks, but it's a bit of a gamble.)

Have you ever had an issue with sorting a full grid and then overfilling a column in between hitting the Sort powerup and the sorted bricks disappearing?

0VERS33R

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Re: Consistent behavior for matches/powerups
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2010, 05:05:16 pm »
I also have the problem of paint > overfill, on any character. it must be a game bug and I would like to see it fixed.

This isn't a bug. Colours will match depending on how you pick them up. As in, they will only match as long as you've hit them with a colour that matches. Hit them with another colour, they'll overfill! This is implemented because it would give easy Match-21's when the captured colours overfilled. There's a VERY easy solution to this problem. Skip a block! Just one. Grab your paint, skip a block, by that time it should be implemented, grab any other colour for a forced clear.
Audiosurf is like a mix of tetris, need for speed and pot... Look at all the colours, dude!

murlough23

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Re: Consistent behavior for matches/powerups
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2010, 06:08:50 pm »
This isn't a bug. Colours will match depending on how you pick them up. As in, they will only match as long as you've hit them with a colour that matches. Hit them with another colour, they'll overfill!

Not true. If I have the following in a column:

Red
Red
Red
Green
Blue
Yellow
Green

And then I hit it with another block on top of those reds, the reds will go away, regardless of the color I hit. This seems to also apply when the match is farther down in the column (or is spread across two or three columns but is partly in that column). As long as the match has registered and started flashing, it vanishes immediately when the column is overfilled, and the remaining blocks settle into place.

This is implemented because it would give easy Match-21's when the captured colours overfilled. There's a VERY easy solution to this problem. Skip a block! Just one. Grab your paint, skip a block, by that time it should be implemented, grab any other colour for a forced clear.

The issue isn't that I'm hitting the extra block on purpose. Often another block will be nefariously hidden behind the paint block, and there isn't enough time to get the one but avoid the other. Or I'll have a paint in my possession and I'm trying to dodge other blocks on the track while activating it (so I can get it in before any existing matches flash and disappear).

Sure, this can be avoided with some degree of skill in most cases, but I've found a lot of surprising coincidences where I manage to hit another brick accidentally at exactly the wrong time, versus other instances where I can hit one a split second later after matching 21 and it works out just fine.

0VERS33R

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Re: Consistent behavior for matches/powerups
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2010, 09:18:32 pm »
As long as the match has registered and started flashing...
That's exactly what I mean. You won't notice this, however, if you pick up a series of the same colour. Which means if you get a paint, followed by a block of the same colour, you shouldn't have an overfill. And this is almost always the case. Yes, I did experience this problem before, but with some clever technical thinking and some experiments, I found that there were conditions.

I guess I'd like to see a poll on this, becuase I really don't mind this overfill effect. It keeps me on my feet, as an eraser player. But if it's a problem with other characters, then maybe it would be best to have it so that matches are instantly registered.
Audiosurf is like a mix of tetris, need for speed and pot... Look at all the colours, dude!

murlough23

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Re: Consistent behavior for matches/powerups
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2010, 01:06:59 am »
I guess I'd like to see a poll on this, becuase I really don't mind this overfill effect. It keeps me on my feet, as an eraser player. But if it's a problem with other characters, then maybe it would be best to have it so that matches are instantly registered.

Seems logical to me that a match should register as soon as you get it, regardless of whether it was organic (collecting blocks from the track) or artificial (paint or sort). But I'd like to hear others' opinions as well.

blue_h3x

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Re: Consistent behavior for matches/powerups
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2010, 07:01:33 am »
As much as it can be an annoyance, it's also something to keep in mind strategically, so I'm not too bothered.
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lavacano201014

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Re: Consistent behavior for matches/powerups
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2010, 11:09:33 am »
My opinion:

Implement this, but don't let it affect Ironmode. After all, it IS supposed to be harder.

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Aquinox

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Re: Consistent behavior for matches/powerups
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2010, 11:58:26 am »
Yeah it doesn't really makes sense that overfills are prevented when there is a match, because the blocks are converted in points when you have a 'normal' match. I think it also should be like this with a 'paint' match.

murlough23

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Re: Consistent behavior for matches/powerups
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2010, 02:20:43 pm »
My opinion:

Implement this, but don't let it affect Ironmode. After all, it IS supposed to be harder.

If you want matches to actually behave differently in Ironmode, how about that slight delay applying to all matches regardless of how they were achieved? (It should be consistent either way.)

But I thought Ironmode was difficult enough by virtue of the lack of shoulders, sudden death on overfills, and increased traffic.

blue_h3x

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Re: Consistent behavior for matches/powerups
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2010, 04:25:08 pm »
maybe for some, though not for others
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0VERS33R

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Re: Consistent behavior for matches/powerups
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2010, 11:52:39 pm »
I think it's interesting how, and no offence to the noobs, the regulars of the forum and those that have shown themselves to be more advanced don't mind, while it's usually the people who have just started either the forums or the game complain. Once again, no offence. I wouldn't mind if it were removed, but
Quote
it's also something to keep in mind strategically
Audiosurf is like a mix of tetris, need for speed and pot... Look at all the colours, dude!