Author Topic: Audiosurf Tournament?  (Read 3972 times)

Saeda88

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Audiosurf Tournament?
« on: October 25, 2009, 05:28:31 am »
Ok, open discussion, nothing definitive yet:

I've been sitting on the Idea about an Audiosurf Tournament for quite some time now. I've still got some Issues, but here's what I thought of so far and I'd like to know what you're thinking, what you would change and If you'd participate.

-First off, I would do the organisation. Even though I would also like to participate, I'm not so sure about it being a good Idea if the organisator is also playing.
-There will be no prices as far as I'm concerned except for the eternal glory and the Title "Audiosurf World Champion" at the individual character ^^
-The first Tournament would clearly be for Mono Characters. The other characters need to be looked at more specifically (ex: Pointman and Pusher combined? After all Pusher has more potential. And the random power ups and white blocks…). Maybe we could do this later if the Idea gets a good reception.

Here's what I thought of: If we get many participants, we'll do a qualifying round on ttfaf, as it's probably the most played song and creates many different scores depending on your performance. The best 8 players will move to the finals.
These will be played 1v1, always with 3 songs.
>One song will be fixed for everyone. It should be at moderate speed (yellow-orange) and moderate traffic (250-300). The Numbers can be discussed here, because I don't know yet what challenge you'd prefer. This song will not decide the duel but might be the little extra you’d need to win.
>One song will be picked by you, you’ll always play this song during the finals. The song should be within a certain duration (4:30-5:00) and traffic (250-350). Longer songs with higher traffic of course tend to give you more points, but of course the risk of screwing up, while easier songs should be a certain stealth but at less scoring potential.
>The third song will be decided by throwing the dice. There will be 6 songs hidden behind the numbers (which number will change every round so you can’t pick ;)). These range from an easy, just barely above 200 traffic song which however has a certain length to a near impossible to stealth 480 Traffic Song (I thought of “The State – Claustrophobia”). The hardest songs in this case will probably not be stealthed in one try, yet a good non stealth run will still give you more points than a mediocre stealth at the lower traffic songs. This is supposed to combine luck and skills. I think most duels will be decided here.
>In the finale, I also though we could add another song, Silent Death. As it’s the highest traffic song, it would be a good Finale to determine the best Audiosurfer.

Possible Issues:
-To create a fair playing field, every player would need the same files and .ash. At TTFAF, this would not yet pose a problem, as most players use the same files anyway, but at the finals this could become a problem, however, I’d of course share my files with the finalists.
-Cheating could be a major problem here. The whole point behind such a tournament is to do a perfect run at first try. I know many here say they do a stealth in every <300 song at once, but I also know many actually aren’t. There are Videos showing hints of a “Restart” and there are also stats that don’t fit what was said. I am unable to control you, so what would be needed is absolute honesty. If you don’t stealth a song, you would need to face this fact and not retry until you got the good run. I’m not sure how this is going to work out, even though I’m sure most participants will in fact play a fair game. But we can’t rule cheating out. My Idea would be to fix a certain time for each final and give the players half an hour from that moment on. Within this time, they would need to post a screenshot of their final score on the board. Cheating would also not be ruled out, but it would be far harder. But it creates another problem:
-Time. Audiosurf players are located all around the world. Setting a match at 6 p.m. here (MET) would mean 10-12 a.m. in America and around midnight in Asia. During workdays this would mean that perhaps not everyone has time to play at this hour.

I’d like to know what you think about it and what you’d change on this plan. Also I would like to see how many are actually willing to participate. As I said, this is only the Idea with mono, I would like to do a Puzzler Championship too, but it’s even harder to create a fair playing field there.
If noone is interested in this, then there’s no reason to put in more thought, but I believe it would be a nice thing to determine the best amongst the Audiosurfers.

Or what do you think?
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Melodia

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Re: Audiosurf Tournament?
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2009, 07:03:54 am »
I've never ever heard TTFAF the whole way, much less have it or have played it on AS...

Saeda88

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Re: Audiosurf Tournament?
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2009, 07:31:35 am »
I said "most" :D

I'd of course send the file to those who don't have it or only have a live version of some kind.
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Sensei Le Roof

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Re: Audiosurf Tournament?
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2009, 03:04:12 pm »
I said "most" :D

I'd of course send the file to those who don't have it or only have a live version of some kind.

In that case, you'd better stick to free music.

Razaeria

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Re: Audiosurf Tournament?
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2009, 04:42:13 pm »
The other characters need to be looked at more specifically (ex: Pointman and Pusher combined? After all Pusher has more potential. And the random power ups and white blocks…). Maybe we could do this later if the Idea gets a good reception.
Well, I believe there's no reason to combine characters since none of them were created equally to begin with. Just make them all separate, and there wouldn't be a problem. It would be great if there was a mode to eliminate the powerups and white blocks though.

Oh well. A mono tourney would still be interesting to see.

Pyritie

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Re: Audiosurf Tournament?
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2009, 05:00:51 pm »
The other characters need to be looked at more specifically (ex: Pointman and Pusher combined? After all Pusher has more potential. And the random power ups and white blocks…). Maybe we could do this later if the Idea gets a good reception.
Well, I believe there's no reason to combine characters since none of them were created equally to begin with. Just make them all separate, and there wouldn't be a problem. It would be great if there was a mode to eliminate the powerups and white blocks though.

Oh well. A mono tourney would still be interesting to see.

For getting rid of white blocks just use [as-wb0]
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blue_h3x

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Re: Audiosurf Tournament?
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2009, 05:03:01 pm »
what if you have no desire to listen to TTFAF? or not want to pirate music (as you sending music to people is) ?
Australia is kinda awesome, but it's no Yorkshire.

Jagori

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Re: Audiosurf Tournament?
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2009, 05:12:47 pm »
The songs could be chosen from somewhere that has free legal downloads, like Jamendo.

xX.` Bugs Bunny

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Re: Audiosurf Tournament?
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2009, 06:42:58 pm »
2 ways I see it possible:

1. choose common artists lots of people have material from e.g. dragonforce, metallica, daft punk etc.

2. use free legal music like over at newsgrounds.com with some pretty awesome artists like kid2will (http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/100727)

or

maybe use some composed music from that thread somewhere in these forums, or maybe someone could make some specifically for a small contest...

once we've decided if we want to use common artists or free music everyone can have access to maybe you could instead just throw a vote what songs should be played and when during the contest.

I don't like the ttfaf idea, not everyone loves that track, and only 8 people moving through to next round? bit boring if you've played 1-3 songs and you're already out...

as for puzzler competition, instead of mixing them all together, maybe you could do a contest for each character separately?

oh and casual pro or elite? since some prefer to play competitive casual/pro while many only compete in elite...
« Last Edit: October 25, 2009, 06:55:48 pm by xX.` Bugs Bunny »

blue_h3x

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Re: Audiosurf Tournament?
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2009, 06:57:41 pm »
You need songs of different genre's and a less of a knock out of players.

You could have a few songs (free, or very common) and have a scoring scheme based on points gained divide by traffic divide by time [ (points / traffic ) / time], and then out of a set number of songs the winner is the player who has the highest score.
Australia is kinda awesome, but it's no Yorkshire.

nhex

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Re: Audiosurf Tournament?
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2009, 08:17:44 pm »
I agree with the above sentiments - free music is easier, and more variety of characters and difficulties are good too.

Saeda88

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Re: Audiosurf Tournament?
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2009, 03:31:55 am »
Well first, the contest would be in Elite. Even the hardest songs on Casual or Pro are quite easy to stealth and it would only be a matter of how many blocks you collect.

Choice of songs:
The choice of songs is not definitive. Also ttfaf doesn't need to be the qualifier. The 8 People quarterfinals were chosen to keep the competition small, I don't yet know how many people would actually want to compete. Only after I got a possible participant list I can decide if we do 8 or 16 People to the Knockout round.

As you all are so much into the legal terms, let me just tell you that sharing your music with friends is perfectly legal as long as you don't charge them anything. Plus I have the agreement of several Bands to use their music as long as they get tributed, which in Audiosurf they do.

The "very common" Argument would work, yet it would be harder to chose the right difficulties as many AS-composed Songs are made to be very hard. And Artists like DF would work, that's why I took ttfaf as qualifier song, but as you can see, there are more people than expected not having it.

But don't you worry about the copyrights. I wouldn't offer you to share the music if I didn't have the permission to use them and mostly even upload them on youtube (which I think I'll do in Split-Screen with the finale ^^ IF it happens).

But we're not yet at the point to determine the songs, First I'd like to know if there's gonna be enough participants and if the tournament would work like that for you.
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blue_h3x

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Re: Audiosurf Tournament?
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2009, 07:35:45 am »
Uploading of music files which you do not own is illegal. Some how I doubt that dragon force, or their record company has given you a right to feely hand out the music to anyone.

High traffic songs have a higher scoring potential then low traffic songs. Also long songs have a higher scoring potential than shorter songs. Thus if you work out the points per traffic per second, this would then attempt to even out the differences in points gained.

For a set of songs to use in the competition, you could just take the weeks radio, and then use the average points across all songs for each player in the competition. As the radio songs come with an ASH, this solves any issues with different versions floating around.

Quote
But don't you worry about the copyrights. I wouldn't offer you to share the music if I didn't have the permission to use them and mostly even upload them on youtube (which I think I'll do in Split-Screen with the finale ^^ IF it happens).

huh?

Australia is kinda awesome, but it's no Yorkshire.

Saeda88

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Re: Audiosurf Tournament?
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2009, 08:50:59 am »
Uploading of music files which you do not own is illegal. Some how I doubt that dragon force, or their record company has given you a right to feely hand out the music to anyone.

As a matter of fact, I don't have the copyrights to Dragonforces songs. I was simply talking about direct sharing, not uploading files for free download. If I give a file directly to you, it is absolutely legal. Here in Switzerland, we actually do have a limit of how far sharing is “personal”, as long as I don’t throw my files around randomly and as long as I don’t just copy entire CDs, the record companies don’t have anything against that – including WMG.

High traffic songs have a higher scoring potential then low traffic songs. Also long songs have a higher scoring potential than shorter songs. Thus if you work out the points per traffic per second, this would then attempt to even out the differences in points gained.

For a set of songs to use in the competition, you could just take the weeks radio, and then use the average points across all songs for each player in the competition. As the radio songs come with an ASH, this solves any issues with different versions floating around.

A points/traffic/duration system would really pose a fair playing field, but there’s two issues I see here: First, as far as I get your point, you would say that we simply give every participant a certain time to get the highest possible scores. This is against the sense of a tournament, we could do this as a qualifying, but something I do insist on is a 1v1 knockout round in which both players compete directly with each other. If it’s that, we could just check who has the most thrones per character and name him/her best player. It is my intention of actually creating a competition where everything is possible. Maybe some of the best players would screw up the qualifiers and won’t make the final round, while some beginner might make it quite far because he’s got a lucky day.
An second, this system would be hard to calculate. One of the reasons why I don’t want a single song during the knockouts is because I want people to calculate their chances. Knowing that you didn’t do too good often pushes you to do better at your second chance.

The Radio Idea is actually not a bad one for the qualifiers though. We’d have a certain time in which people could do the qualifiers and those who have the highest scores would make the finals. As I said before, the KO round is something I must insist on to keep the spirit of a tournament.
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bw

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Re: Audiosurf Tournament?
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2009, 09:52:45 am »
tourney sounds fun...

also make it a challenge if you can only play the song once or maybe twice max.