Author Topic: AudioSurf for iPod, PSP, Mac, NDS, Xbox360, XBLA, Wii, etc  (Read 96817 times)

gooseses

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: AudioSurf for iPod, PSP, Mac, NDS, Xbox360, XBLA, Wii, etc
« Reply #75 on: July 25, 2009, 03:10:20 pm »
sorry, but why the iphone? ._o wouldnt the xbox or ps3 be a better choice regarding the ... power to create tracks? (dunno if the wii could handle this - or how much system-power the ds or psp have for this purpose)

it's not that hard ya know? audiosurf isn't the most complicated of engines, and a port to iphone wont be too much work. the majority of people saying it shouldn't be on the iphone are people who have a ps3 or xbox, and yes, it would be nice to see it on those machines too, but use your noggin: it will take significantly more work to make a shiny polished ps3 game than a stripped down port for an iphone.

Mincus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2394
    • View Profile
Re: AudioSurf for iPod, PSP, Mac, NDS, Xbox360, XBLA, Wii, etc
« Reply #76 on: July 25, 2009, 03:18:11 pm »
it's not that hard ya know? audiosurf isn't the most complicated of engines,

Wrong.
Audiosurf uses Quest3D (http://quest3d.com/) which is a Windows only product.
To port to any system would require an entirely new engine, as passerby said.

Dylan has hinted that he has another engine in the works and this might have been what he meant on kotaku, but it's been months since we (the Audiosurf community that is) heard anything about this, so I wouldn't hold your breath for a port to anything.

suicicoo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: AudioSurf for iPod, PSP, Mac, NDS, Xbox360, XBLA, Wii, etc
« Reply #77 on: July 26, 2009, 12:53:50 am »
it's not that hard ya know? audiosurf isn't the most complicated of engines, and a port to iphone wont be too much work. the majority of people saying it shouldn't be on the iphone are people who have a ps3 or xbox, and yes, it would be nice to see it on those machines too, but use your noggin: it will take significantly more work to make a shiny polished ps3 game than a stripped down port for an iphone.

you are right, i own a ps3 - but the ps3 runs on the same screen as my pc, so it wont make much of a difference for me - with the exception, that the ps3 is not as loud as my pc ;) - but i also own a psp and a ds, its not, i dont want a port for the iphone, i really dont care if there was one, but i really think it was easier to port audiosurf to a system with more power instead of a system with less power... or am i wrong?

0per4t0r

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
    • MSN Messenger - jrb62696@hotmail.com
    • View Profile
    • Youtube Channel
    • Email
Re: AudioSurf for iPod, PSP, Mac, NDS, Xbox360, XBLA, Wii, etc
« Reply #78 on: July 30, 2009, 09:38:50 am »
Audiosurf for linux would be awesome.

Laserrobotics

  • Robot Overlord
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3464
  • Beep boop everyone.
    • View Profile
    • Steam ID
Re: AudioSurf for iPod, PSP, Mac, NDS, Xbox360, XBLA, Wii, etc
« Reply #79 on: July 30, 2009, 03:48:48 pm »
I think we're forgetting the purpose of this thread again.  It is not to say which OS or gaming device would be nice to have Audiosurf on.  It is so that people can discuss how it would be possible to get Audiosurf on something else, and how likely, but the main purpose is to keep people from starting threads asking for ports.
Note to self:  1/24/12 Awawayabeft

BeastOfSoda

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: AudioSurf for iPod, PSP, Mac, NDS, Xbox360, XBLA, Wii, etc
« Reply #80 on: July 31, 2009, 03:49:53 pm »
I think we're forgetting the purpose of this thread again.  It is not to say which OS or gaming device would be nice to have Audiosurf on.  It is so that people can discuss how it would be possible to get Audiosurf on something else, and how likely, but the main purpose is to keep people from starting threads asking for ports.
in that case, i'd like to conclusively state that it would be ENTIRELY possible to have a full-featured audiosurf clone on the iphone. let me state beforehand that i don't own or like iphones, so you can be certain that my judgment is not biased in the least.

let's take a look at past exploits in the genre of musical games: those games perhaps date back to the very beginning of game programming, as far as playing a tune goes. but that's not what we're after, we're pondering about the possibility of generating full levels based on any song thrown at the game. what do we have going for this?

the basic principle of audiosurf is a funky visualizer, that lets you ride on the generated waveform with all sorts of quirks and challenges thrown at you. it just so happens that we do have a match based on those criteria, and it appeared on none other than the playstation 1, exactly ten years ago: the game in question was vib-ribbon. it had minimalistic looks and levels generated upon loading the actual song, and this worked by swapping the game disc with the audio CD of your choice; all of this was accomplished with extremely minimal, optimized code that crammed the whole program into 2 MBs of RAM.

now, let me remind you that the PSX had a 33.8 MHz RISC processor; the iphone, on the other hand, has 128 MB (shared) of RAM, and its ARM CPU clocks in at 400 MHz; if we slice out the reserved memory areas from the equation, that's roughly 40 times as much available RAM as the old PSX was capable of, and twelve times the CPU speed (although admittedly, the ARM CPU has a much more extended instruction set than the somewhat streamlined PSX one). that's a lot of wiggle room to cram a well-optimized engine into, capable of handling the whole track-processing and visualization (although, of course, in much rougher detail) the PC version can juggle.

as a corollary, we could conclude that if dylan was capable of tapping console hardware properly, it would be definitely possible to come up with a great audiosurf port for most systems, maybe down to the PS2 (294.912 EE CPU/32 MB RDRAM), although in the latter case with very limited visuals since the game would have to again swap from CD.

note that i intentionally left out the graphical details from my observations, keeping the speculation and technical specs for those in careful check: i take it for granted that there will have to be cuts to the current visuals, since these systems are not capable of munching enough video data to rival a voodoo 2; additionally, i'm assuming that dylan wouldn't have a thorough enough knowledge of any given system to come up with highly optimized code, that usually happens when a developer works with a certain platform on a stable basis (absolutely no offense intended towards a great coder, that's just how things are with so many different architectures around :)); but that's not even the point here.

point is, it would be completely possible to have a full-featured port of this game on any system, provided that there was no need to deal with swapping the whole game data into RAM and that its specs were at least reasonable. as you can see, even 33 MHz are just enough to crunch a song and generate the corresponding stage (although the guys at NaNaOn-Sha already knew the PSX's hardware beforehand, having worked on parappa the rapper before, and were probably hardcore coding ninjas to pull that off; also, that game's visuals were VERY minimalistic, think vector-based but with more pixellation); that's really not the worst barrier here. the actual problem is the availability of a reliable engine to work with, and it remains to be seen if dylan's rumored "audiosurf mobile engine" will be capable of handling such different platforms swiftly.

that said, it would also be entirely possible to create a handheld port of this game; again, there's nothing crazy about pulling this one off. case in point, beats for the PSP; it's another game capable of analyzing audio data and creating a barebones stage to play, with nice visuals to boot. it's also to be noted that the PSP has better graphics than the iphone, in spite of the lower CPU clock, giving room for some extra eye-candy (also, don't quote me on this, but i think that in this case the visuals are handled by the CPU itself, which might complicate things a little -- but not by much). on the other hand, the DS implements an ARM CPU as well; if he's working on an ARM-based engine, it shouldn't be too hard to fiddle around and tweak it to work with that platform too. well, that's it, i hope my observations weren't too boring for anyone's comfort ;)

Laserrobotics

  • Robot Overlord
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3464
  • Beep boop everyone.
    • View Profile
    • Steam ID
Re: AudioSurf for iPod, PSP, Mac, NDS, Xbox360, XBLA, Wii, etc
« Reply #81 on: July 31, 2009, 07:57:18 pm »
That was some very interesting information.  Does that mean that a version made to work on the PSP could just be tweaked to work on the DS, rather than creating a whole new version?  Disregard the touchscreen when answering that one.
Note to self:  1/24/12 Awawayabeft

Mincus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2394
    • View Profile
Re: AudioSurf for iPod, PSP, Mac, NDS, Xbox360, XBLA, Wii, etc
« Reply #82 on: July 31, 2009, 08:40:28 pm »
It would depend on the dev tools for the two systems.

With a well written and properly black-boxed engine, theoretically you only need to rewrite the initialisation and actual rendering code when porting. In practice it's rarely as easy as that. SDL and OpenGL make things easier on many platforms (notably if an SDL engine were written for Windows, assuming no additional Windows-specific libraries, it would be trivial -- few lines of code, at most -- to port to Linux and Mac OS -- 9 and X, although 9 would have endian issues to remember about).

The single thing that would worry me most about porting to low-spec systems is the track analysis, it may add a significant loading time before the song. Perhaps it can be optimised somewhat though. Only Dylan knows the answer to that one.
But as BeastOfSoda pointed out, there's no technical limitations from the current generation of games hardware, portable and home.

BeastOfSoda

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: AudioSurf for iPod, PSP, Mac, NDS, Xbox360, XBLA, Wii, etc
« Reply #83 on: July 31, 2009, 11:35:03 pm »
indeed, there are no barriers to speak of; however, porting the game from one version to the other would not be as immediate as that. the PSP uses its own CPU instruction set, i think, which is proprietary (correct me if i'm wrong here, i'm about to leave on vacation and can't do my research right now :P); that would complicate things when trying to port anything between the two different platforms, and possibly make it a pointless effort, because for a DS version the ideal starting point would be the iphone one (same CPU architecture makes things much easier than creating a PSP engine ex novo and porting from there).

that said, there wouldn't be any particular problems in handling the two different versions of the game (as stated, provided that there were two separate engines to run the code for each architecture, and of course by slashing the graphical detail to fit the diminutive DS' GPU); the only issue i see with this is the fact that the original DS has no official way to load external files onto it, but that wouldn't be a problem with the DSi's SD capabilities: that would still sift out the original DS users from the equation, and this would either require looking for an alternate solution or leaving them stranded. there's also this kind of retro-compatibility to keep in mind, from a commercial standpoint there's no reason to slice off part of the userbase unless you're pushing a new system, but an indie developer would normally have absolutely no interest in becoming a system seller. this could be fixed with a SLOT-2 based card reader to load the music on, but that's even more development effort and hardware licensing to go through; still, it's entirely in the realm of feasibility, so provided that he wanted to do it and got the proper help/documentation to work with those systems... yeah, sure. completely doable.

Mincus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2394
    • View Profile
Re: AudioSurf for iPod, PSP, Mac, NDS, Xbox360, XBLA, Wii, etc
« Reply #84 on: August 01, 2009, 07:21:39 am »
PSP uses a MIPS32 4000 as it's main CPU with a secondary identical CPU dressed up as a "media unit".
DS has a much slower CPU set than the iPhone (much, much slower). 66MHz ARM9 + 33MHz ARM7. The DSi improves on this somewhat.

But the CPUs aren't really important beyond having the raw capability (and the DS wouldn't be able to decode all types of music I suspect. FLAC especially would be very difficult due to the high data traffic across busses, but MP3 and OGG should be acceptable if both CPUs are used efficiently). The simple reason it's not important is that provided the code is reasonably portable, a compiler such as gcc can compile to x86, PPC, ARM or MIPS with ease. The DS version would actually end up being the most distinct due to requiring optimisation in places, and running on both CPUs, I still think it's a feasible platform from a technical standpoint but would be the most difficult to port to. Having dabbled in homebrew on the DS and the GP2x (another dual-CPU ARM system) I can tell you writing code at that level between two CPUs isn't easy, homebrewing on the DS had little support for it last I checked and to efficiently use both CPUs you have to effectively write your own thread manager (not an easy task). Nintendo probably have a cleaner solution in their official libraries though.

Note that all 3D operations on the PSP, DS and iPhone use something akin to a GPU in a computer and therefore CPU speeds don't need to do huge amounts of 3D operations, significantly reducing the load in this respect. And this is where the problems come in.
Whilst the main CPUs of most modern devices are generally one of a select few, the GPUs can often be custom made. This IS the case in the PSP and means Dylan would have to send off to Sony for licensing etc etc.
Same goes for the DS.
The iPhone has a free toolkit, which should do the job (however it has other horrible restrictions I don't agree with -- but that's not relevant in this discussion ;))

emperorjason

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: AudioSurf for iPod, PSP, Mac, NDS, Xbox360, XBLA, Wii, etc
« Reply #85 on: September 27, 2009, 08:43:37 pm »
I just got an iPhone, and I hope he knows what a killing he would make coding this game for iPhone and iPod Touch.  They definitely have the hardware power to run this game, and with access to your music library, this seems like the perfect game for an iPhone.  I think it is VERY high in demand, and would sell very easily as an app.

Laserrobotics

  • Robot Overlord
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3464
  • Beep boop everyone.
    • View Profile
    • Steam ID
Re: AudioSurf for iPod, PSP, Mac, NDS, Xbox360, XBLA, Wii, etc
« Reply #86 on: September 28, 2009, 03:28:54 pm »
Again, Dylan is fully aware of the amount of money that he would make if it were possible to get an iPod/PSP/Mac/whathaveyou version out.
Note to self:  1/24/12 Awawayabeft

Tabarnaco

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: AudioSurf for iPod, PSP, Mac, NDS, Xbox360, XBLA, Wii, etc
« Reply #87 on: October 10, 2009, 02:31:10 pm »
What I like to do is use my DS with DS2Win (a homebrew application) as a gamepad to play Audiosurf. It makes it easier to move fast and accurately, at least when my Internet connection is stable enough.

Oh, and no current-generation handheld compares to the DS when it comes to the amount of high-quality games.

BlueVIper

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: AudioSurf for iPod, PSP, Mac, NDS, Xbox360, XBLA, Wii, etc
« Reply #88 on: November 09, 2009, 11:10:00 am »
I registered here just to say that I really want this on my Ps3.

The only argument not to bring it to ps3 is developing costs.

It would be perfect playing on my big screen tv and with the great dual schock.
I know hardcores here always say that mouse is the way to play. No problem
with the ps3 (as you all probably know), but I (and a lot with me) enjoy the option to use
buttons, analog stick or sixaxis (even for fps).
And there is something so much more satisfying playing on a console from the sofa.
I know this probably isnt the opinion of the users here, but I certainly dont feel like this should
be counted as a statistically correct selection for potential buyers and gamers.
The ps3 also has the advantage of being faster than the avarage computer.
Also like someone said, 5.1 sound from the ps3, much more usual to have big sound in your living room than at the computer.

There is already so many great indie games on psn (they only take in good indie games, but this would
for sure make it) and a high percent of the ps3 users buy much from there.
Sony would probably be pretty helpful helping programming and implementing functions.
Even if there would be a downside in making them publishing it. (I'm sure xbox and wii users would appreciate it too)

If this happens, make sure to release a complete experience that easily can stream music over the network, have great graphics, have the same downloads as the pc version etc etc
And have new features such as online/offline multiplayer (with a nice list to see what songs you have in common with you friend and such, but now I get too detailed) for example.
And keep on improving it with patches and cheap expansion packs.

Hope this is seriously considered, cause I see a lot of money and fans coming in this way.

blue_h3x

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4577
    • View Profile
    • AS Tournament
Re: AudioSurf for iPod, PSP, Mac, NDS, Xbox360, XBLA, Wii, etc
« Reply #89 on: November 09, 2009, 11:33:34 am »
You can play Audiosurf using a controller if you wish, also you can hook your computer up to your tv as well (although monitors can show a higher resolution). You can event still play from your sofa.

Audiosurf runs well on low spec machines, it runs at a decent fps, abiet on lowest graphics settings, on a netbook, 1.6Ghz single core, 1GB ram, integrated graphics so there's not going to be an issue with playing Audiosurf on your average computer.
Austria is just like Yorkshire, but they have bigger hills.... oh and they have real snow too