'Improved score potential of Mono characters'

[mengzor]

Uhm. wtf no.

If they want to play the easiest damned character in the game they do not deserve to be able to compete with others who use real characters like eraser/pusher/pointman.

Im sick and tired of playing songs only to find that im the only pusher amongst a sea of ninjafags

[Vector_Matt]

<sarcasm>Because people who get good at stealthing mono are clearly infidels.</sarcasm>

Mono needs the boost, as it was before the patch they were hard pressed to even get silver on the songs, let alone a spot in the rankings.

It used to be that mono was too good. It's not anymore. Hopefully the patch puts them about even with the other chars.

Those scores you see at the top are most likely from before the nerf.


<sarcasm>As everyone knows, if you can't compete, flame!</sarcasm>

[Lim-Dul]

Vector - you can't deny that playing Ninja Mono or any other Mono character requires FAR less skill than playing any other character. You are saying something about players being good at stealthing? Good Lord - ANYBODY can stealth virtually ANY song after several attempts because it's so damn easy - the first time I went Through the Fire and Flames (pun intended) on Elite I collected like 2 greys and didn't want to improve on just because Mono was boring.
There's a quite low "high-score ceiling" for Mono characters because the most you can do is collect all blocks and avoid all the greys. Unlike the Mono chars the other racers require much more skill at sorting blocks, building combos etc.
I still think that separate scoreboards for Mono characters would be the way to go because the gameplay is simply that much easier and that different from the other chars.

[One_Hertz]

Vector - you can't deny that playing Ninja Mono or any other Mono character requires FAR less skill than playing any other character. You are saying something about players being good at stealthing? Good Lord - ANYBODY can stealth virtually ANY song after several attempts because it's so damn easy - the first time I went Through the Fire and Flames (pun intended) on Elite I collected like 2 greys and didn't want to improve on just because Mono was boring.
There's a quite low "high-score ceiling" for Mono characters because the most you can do is collect all blocks and avoid all the greys. Unlike the Mono chars the other racers require much more skill at sorting blocks, building combos etc.
I still think that separate scoreboards for Mono characters would be the way to go because the gameplay is simply that much easier and that different from the other chars.

Ignorance is bliss.

[Dark-Sonik]

Uhm. wtf no.

If they want to play the easiest damned character in the game they do not deserve to be able to compete with others who use real characters like eraser/pusher/pointman.

Im sick and tired of playing songs only to find that im the only pusher amongst a sea of ninjafags

Not to mention that the real, the puzzle-gamemodes like Eraser, get less points now. Just played "Sky is over" like I always do (77668 best score of mine) and I only get 47k max now...

Just played it on Ninja Mono, Ironmode and nearly have beaten my 47k with it, just missed Clean Finish... ._.

[Lim-Dul]

Ignorance is bliss.

Yeah - got any real arguments there?

Some guy beat my score on Chick Habit with a Mono on Casual (is there anything easier?) and though I usually don't care about Casual I tried to beat him with Pointman. I tried everything - collecting virtually ALL the blocks on the track with Clean Finish, Butter Ninja and Seeing Red, building huge combos, using all the power-ups - I even switched to Iron Mode - I managed to squeeze a feeble 55,190 points out of this.

So I got annoyed and chose Mono and guess what - on the FIRST attempt I got over 68K points...

I'll be testing my high-scores with other chars on different tracks and different difficulties and see what happens - my guess is - I'll be able to get more points with Mono. It's annoying that because the gameplay with Mono is so different every time the devs tweak it it either becomes the best character or the worst character because all the other racers are based around the same concept, hence much easier to balance.

That's why I still think that separate scoreboards for Mono would be the way to go since it'll be impossible to tune the chars to be "fair".

It's not that I particularly like or dislike any character - I just want to compete AND have a real choice, not an illusion of choice like "yes, son, you can play Pointman but you'd get like 20K more by playing Mono".

I thought that Mono was balanced before. Sure, it was hard to reach the top spot on most tracks BUT it was easy to land "somewhere" on them and the Mono chars were still the best ones for REALLY fast tracks. Now they are the best for every type of track and that annoys me.

[LiQuid!]

This argument will be solved when Mono/Puzzle characters get their own scoreboards like they should have from the start.  The two modes just aren't compatible.

I personally thought it was a little unfair that I could blow past a near perfection Stealth/Clean Mono with a really crappy Eraser run on almost every single song.

Dylan said he's working on "finding a sweet spot" but I still think trying to find a balance between the scoring systems of both seems like a misuse of valuable development time.  It's obvious that they're two totally different ways to play.

[Melodia]

Ignorance is bliss.

That's why I still think that separate scoreboards for each character would be the way to go since it'll be impossible to tune the chars to be "fair".

Fixed.


-Lala-

[One_Hertz]

Good Lord - ANYBODY can stealth virtually ANY song after several attempts because it's so damn easy - the first time I went Through the Fire and Flames (pun intended) on Elite I collected like 2 greys and didn't want to improve on just because Mono was boring.

I was mainly referring to this part. Getting two grays and no grays are two VERY VERY different things. I'd love to see you stealth something actually difficult like encounter by alabaster as well. Since ninja mono is so easy and all.

[UnknownAssassinX]

Good Lord - ANYBODY can stealth virtually ANY song after several attempts because it's so damn easy - the first time I went Through the Fire and Flames (pun intended) on Elite I collected like 2 greys and didn't want to improve on just because Mono was boring.

I was mainly referring to this part. Getting two grays and no grays are two VERY VERY different things. I'd love to see you stealth something actually difficult like encounter by alabaster as well. Since ninja mono is so easy and all.

Yeah, really Lim-Dul I beg to differ. Stealthing is not an easy thing. For some songs it may be, but for the challenging songs it is not simple by far. I take severe offense to the fact that you're saying it's not hard, you have no evidence to back up that statement.

[Lim-Dul]

What I'm saying is that getting a high-score with Mono on difficult songs is FAR easier than getting a score in the same range with "puzzle" characters which tend to overfill quickly if you're not careful.

As to backing up my theory - do you have to post gameplay videos or something to increase your "internet cred"? The scoreboards are a far better argument because I can get a larger sample from them.

Mono chars require ONLY fast reflexes - puzzle chars require BOTH fast thinking and fast reflexes.

I'd love to see you stealth something actually difficult like encounter by alabaster as well.

Well - and I'd like to see you beating a Mono score with any of the puzzle characters on that particular track. All I can see on the high-score list is a bunch of Monos and I think THAT backs up my theory perfectly. Yep, Encounter is hard with Mono but with all the other chars it's virtually IMPOSSIBLE because, guess what, they are harder to play. ;-) If the characters were balanced then there would be a mix of them on the scoreboards.

[Dark-Sonik]

Good Lord - ANYBODY can stealth virtually ANY song after several attempts because it's so damn easy - the first time I went Through the Fire and Flames (pun intended) on Elite I collected like 2 greys and didn't want to improve on just because Mono was boring.

I was mainly referring to this part. Getting two grays and no grays are two VERY VERY different things. I'd love to see you stealth something actually difficult like encounter by alabaster as well. Since ninja mono is so easy and all.

Yeah, really Lim-Dul I beg to differ. Stealthing is not an easy thing. For some songs it may be, but for the challenging songs it is not simple by far. I take severe offense to the fact that you're saying it's not hard, you have no evidence to back up that statement.

Easier though with the new update - when not playing in Ironmode. I actually nearly stealthed TTFAF and Encounter today. Failed on Enc because of the new cam-behaviour.

[EdZ]

Personally, I feel the opposite is the problem. I've been playing exclusively Ninja mono, so I thought I'd try Eraser. My usual scores for the song I tested (006-shingeki) for Ninja mono is around 68-70k (pre-patch). First ever run with Eraser netted my upwards of 80k.

[Susej]

Good Lord - ANYBODY can stealth virtually ANY song after several attempts because it's so damn easy - the first time I went Through the Fire and Flames (pun intended) on Elite I collected like 2 greys and didn't want to improve on just because Mono was boring.

I was mainly referring to this part. Getting two grays and no grays are two VERY VERY different things. I'd love to see you stealth something actually difficult like encounter by alabaster as well. Since ninja mono is so easy and all.

Yeah, really Lim-Dul I beg to differ. Stealthing is not an easy thing. For some songs it may be, but for the challenging songs it is not simple by far. I take severe offense to the fact that you're saying it's not hard, you have no evidence to back up that statement.

It's not that it's not hard, it's the fact that all the other characters are harder. While a song can be memorized pretty quickly with mono, and the stealth can be obtained by anyone who cares enough and isn't naturally terrible with rhythm (or reflexes, whatever it is this game uses), the others are much more play as you go, even after a few times through. Sure, you start to memorize certain parts, but lets be honest here, memorizing the positions of 2 colors is a ton easier than memorizing the positions of 5 while having to adjust every time for white/black/powerups.

I believe either the stealth bonus should be bumped up, and the current point values (or the old ones maybe) should stay. That way, if you really care, you can perfect the song, and force eraser/pusher/whatevers to have to nearly perfect it as well, but monos should still have less point potential for the reasons stated above.

[Mustard]

I believe either the stealth bonus should be bumped up, and the current point values (or the old ones maybe) should stay. That way, if you really care, you can perfect the song, and force eraser/pusher/whatevers to have to nearly perfect it as well, but monos should still have less point potential for the reasons stated above.

I like it a lot.  Stealth bonus bumped up, but keep the old point system.